butterflidustMemberJuly 25, 2006 at 3:47 pm #171204698016
hey all, i have cf and my wife doesnt. she is a born again
christian . we went through ivf for our kids, (in Australia at the
time because i had cf we were inelligable for adoption). we have
two marvellous boys now 7 &9. the problem is we have 9 embryo’s
still in the freezer so to speak as they overstimulated rachael. i
dont mind discarding them however rachael believes this is equal to
abortion. tough one. and as far as my beliefs go here are a few. 1.
something doesnt have to be real to believe in it. 2. no one knows
the truth about what happens when we die, if they did it would be
called knowledge, not faith. 3. faith is another term for hope.4. i
think most peoples faith is largely based on where they were born
and what their parents taught them., geography truely determines
the majority of peoples beliefs. 5. i wonder if we made god!,
sounds crazy but there are sooo many different faiths worldwide it
would appear most people need something to put their trust in just
to survive this crazy old world. 6. just the same as a flock of
sheep has the odd one one thats deformed or diseased, so do we
humans have deformities or disease, i dont blame god for cf, its
just life to me, and i deal with it. and a last question, does
anybody personally know anyone with cf & the shitty lung
functions that go with it make a miraculous recovery through prayer
and blow 100% normal pft’s? just my ponderings and im looking
foward to any reply’s. have fun, BCJuly 10, 2006 at 3:38 am #171204695484
Sorry I haven’t responded to your question sooner!!! I know, I’ve learned the “darndest” things on the site too! Anyway, this is a fascinating topic, and I personally appreciate that we can do it respectfully and in an informed way.
As far as a Witness storing their own blood for future use-No, this would conflict with out beliefs. B/c it’s using blood period-as a treatment for anything. So that it’s our own blood doesn’t matter. There is a Bible scripture at Leviticus 17:10-(just so you don’t have to take my word for it if you’re curious) That says to ‘abstain from any sort of blood’, and also at Acts 15:29-‘keep abstaining from blood.’ So we believe these to mean all forms of blood use-including our own.
However, there are procedures that some Witnesses have used to keep their own blood in them during surgeries and procedures. If there’s a lot of blood loss, they can connect a circuit from the bleeding part of the body (collecting the blood), circulate it to a blood purifying machine, and directly back into the body-so that the blood actually never leaves the body-it remains in that closed circuit.littledebbieMemberJuly 6, 2006 at 10:50 pm #171204695176
Just curious Christian. before one of my surgeries they had
me bank my own blood for a few weeks in a row. would that be
acceptable since it’s yours even though it’s being taken and then
This is so interesting…I learn the darndest things on this
site…July 3, 2006 at 3:38 pm #171204694824
Just thought I’d give a personal example of a way this has personally affected my life-b/c I’ve never been faced with someone telling me I needed a transfusion or anything.
Back in winter I went to a Sinus doc for a consultation for sinus surgery. He explained that while he’s hasn’t experienced it-bleeding is the most common complication. I explained my beliefs. He said it wouldn’t be a problem, and the chances that it would come to that would be very rare-even so, he’d abide by my wishes. He then said that b/c of my beliefs, if I started to bleed during the surgery he’d stop surgery, and resume at a later time-breaking the procedure into two or three small surgeries. With a patient who has no blood issues-(non Witness), he’d probably just keep operating through the bleeding. So it’s preventing an issue from coming up and finding a good doctor to abide by your wishes.July 3, 2006 at 3:31 pm #171204694823
Hi Katy- I copied this from an article-(obviously I’m not smart enough to remember all these!)- These are some of the bloodless options.
Some of the Methods
Fluids: Ringer’s lactate solution, dextran, hydroxyethyl starch, and others are used to maintain blood volume, preventing hypovolemic shock. Some fluids now being tested can transport oxygen.
Drugs: Genetically engineered proteins can stimulate the production of red blood cells (erythropoietin), blood platelets (interleukin-11), and various white blood cells (GM-CSF, G-CSF). Other medications greatly reduce blood loss during surgery (aprotinin, antifibrinolytics) or help to reduce acute bleeding (desmopressin).
Biological hemostats: Collagen and cellulose woven pads are used to stop bleeding by direct application. Fibrin glues and sealants can plug puncture wounds or cover large areas of bleeding tissue.
Blood salvage: Salvaging machines recover blood that is lost during surgery or trauma. The blood is cleansed and can be returned to the patient in a closed circuit. In extreme cases, liters of blood can be recovered using such a system.
Surgical techniques: Thorough operative planning, including consultation with experienced clinicians, helps the surgical team to avoid complications. Prompt action to stop bleeding is essential. Delays greater than 24 hours can greatly increase patient mortality. Dividing large surgeries into several smaller ones decreases total blood loss.
Surgical tools: Some devices cut and seal blood vessels simultaneously. Other devices can seal bleeding on large areas of tissue. Laparoscopic and minimally invasive instruments allow surgeries to be performed without the blood loss associated with large incisions.
Back to me-As far as the surgical techniques, you’d think well Duh-anyone would receive preventative surgery like that, but not so. At the Bloodless centers across the country, there are specific surgeons that do the bloodless procedures. In fact I read that this certain heart specialist did over 600 bloodless open heart surgeries. So there are extra steps they’d take with a bloodless patient.
As far as taking transplants, that is left up to an individual to decide on thier own-how they personally feel about it. I have known some that wouldn’t take transplants, and that’s really up to them. But our faith does not teach that transplants are wrong. Again, there are bloodless organ transplants centers that I would go to if I needed a lung transplant. And most of these centers are at the main bloodless hospitals in major cities.
Many people think I’m sure that Jehovah’s Witnesses just say-NO Blood! and scurry away like frightened people, harming themselves. But as you can see-this is a very organized process and we have some of the world’s top doctors that have developed treatments for this. We don’t just say-Oh, we’ll rely on God to heal us-No way. We take all types of medical treatment available.katyf13MemberJuly 3, 2006 at 8:08 am #171204694804
I’m curious… what are the other bloodless options? And I would imagine transplants are another no? Just curious,AllieMemberJuly 3, 2006 at 2:36 am #171204694788
No, I don’t mind at all. It is a movement, like vegans and vegetarians everywhere, but is your friend a stricter religious Jew, or just dietarily? All of the Jews I know around here, with a few exceptions, eat meat. No law against that, as the manner of slaughter is supposed to draw the blood out, and we are not supposed to eat certain cuts because they would have more blood. But there are always the pockets of people with different ideas like that. In NY, you will have all kinds of different ideas of Judaism, being as it is the state with the most Jewish people in it.
I don’t keep kosher, mainly for two reasons. 1) where I live, it is nearly impossible to find kosher meat. 2) the original reason for separating your milk and meat was so that you would not boil a kid in it’s mother’s milk….a disgusting idea, to be sure. With today’s processes, this is HIGHLY unlikely. So I don’t feel it’s necessity. It’s kind of ‘to each their own’July 3, 2006 at 1:58 am #171204694785
this is so interesting to me! I think part of it is I love culture, but the fact that in so many religions, what we see today is based on something from the ancient past! Like the Kosher Slaughter you were talking about-it is part of a religious faith today, but look how old that belief is?! Its amazing. We learned so much about things like that when we were in the Middle East recently. I have a close friend who is a devout kosher veggie (for religious reasons), and I guess maybe he’s given me the impression that there are TONS of him! (kinda funny) But thanks for the correction. Maybe what I’m thinking of is pockets of groups like that-you know depending on the area you live. I live in a suburb on NYC and it seems like there’s quite a few here.
So do you mind me asking how you feel about it? If you do tell me to shutup.BradMemberJuly 3, 2006 at 1:25 am #171204694782
To each his or her own I say…..
I work in an office with a Christian Scientists
She has given me her colds a few times…………………………JazzysMomMemberJuly 3, 2006 at 1:05 am #171204694780
Thanks for your input Christian! I like to be educated so I understand why people make the choices they do based on their beliefs…..doesnt matter whether I agree or not!AllieMemberJuly 3, 2006 at 12:33 am #171204694778This is why today you’ll still find many people of strict Jewish faith that are vegitarians for this reason.
I think you’ll find that most of the growing vegetarian Jewish movement is amoung the less strict Jewish movements, not among the Orthodox or Hasidic movements. This is the reason we have a kosher method of slaughter, true, but there is no more a Jewish vegetarian movement than many faiths.July 2, 2006 at 10:50 pm #171204694774
HI, as an active Jehovah’s Witness I wanted to clear up things and reply. Correct, we do not accept blood transfusions of any kind. This is based on numerous scriptures throughout the Bible-Hebrew scriptures and Greek scriptures-which talk about abstaining from consuming all types of blood. The early Israelite law stated this, and early Christian law centuries later after Jesus death stated this also. Kind of interesting-in early Israelite law-there were specific directions they had to follow to drain the blood from their animals so as not to eat any of it. Also-other civilizations centuries ago had customs of drinking blood, and the Bible commanded that they stay away from that also. This is why today you’ll still find many people of strict Jewish faith that are vegitarians for this reason. We don’t go to that extreme, but still avoid blood. So-that’s just where we base this strong belief on.
As far as health concerns, avoiding blood transfusions is really becoming not a big issues anymore. In the past few years, medicine has realized that regardless of religious preference, blood isn’t usually the best medicine-and there are alternatives to blood you can take. There are Bloodless Medicine centers all over the US now, most famously the Bloodless Medicine center at Englewood Hospital in New Jersey, and they offer numerous alternatives to blood transfusions. Strict Jehovah’s Witnesses would never take blood under any circumstances, and while this may seem crazy for non-Witnesses to understand, you have to realize that we view it as a serious part of our following what the bible teaches. Like if someone was holding a gun to your head, and telling you that if you don’t shoot another person, they would pull the trigger and shoot you….most people believe in thou shall not kill whether they are religious or not-their conscience wouldn’t let them willinglly kill another innocent human, right? That’s really the only way I can explain it-we view it as a serious moral command.
As far as other scriptural/health related concerns-Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in having abortions. We view that very seriously also. We also do not believe in harming our bodies with drugs or tobacco-b/c their is evidence that they both physically harm the body. We believe that the Bible teaches that human is a gift and is very precious and we shouldn’t take it for granted.
With that being said-I don’t shun someone if they have used these things or had a problem with drugs or alcohol. We have programs to help people overcome addictions, even programs where we go into men’s and women’s prisons to do individual counseling and help people get a better life.
I think people think that Witnesses are extreme, and like anything-if you have a better understanding of a belief-even though you may not agree with it-there can be more respect for people’s beliefs. And tolerance.MockingbirdMemberJuly 1, 2006 at 6:44 pm #171204694675
I think Jehovah’s witnesses can recieve blood now, but it has to be a certain type of man-made blood or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…’s_Witnesses_and_blood
Christian Scientists believe they cannot ever go to the doctor or take medicine, but always must be healed by prayer alone. Their founder claimed she had been healed miraculously, so she kind of based her entire religion on that.
Then, of course, there’s scientology, which we all know about by now.
That’s the only three I know about, though I’m sure every religion has its sects that believe this kind of stuff.JazzysMomMemberJuly 1, 2006 at 5:48 pm #1777815
Since I am not an actively religious person I dont know the answer so I will throw it out there to you guys. I was wonder how many religions have certain beliefs that might interfere with the health care. For example: Jehovah Witnesses do not believe in receiving blood. Which normally wouldnt be a problem I guess, but I am sure there are times it would be. The hasidic jews dont seek health care during the sabbath. Granted there are the die hards & the extremests versus those that IMHO use “common sense” when waying there beliefs versus their life, but in general is what I am speaking of. Any thoughts & please this is meant for informational purposes only & not controversiial & again by no means do I assume that EVERY person following a certain belief would follow the same path to the tee!
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